Considering a Sales Team with Rich Beuchert
Considering a Sales Team with Rich Beuchert
[00:00:00] Ryan Chapman: Hey, this is Ryan Chapman with the Fix Your Funnel Interview Series and as promised, I'm back with Rich and- Rich with RealGun Results Marketing. We're talking about- this episode in particular because this is a really important episode because we're going to be talking about sales teams in atypical situations. People normally, when they think of sales teams, I don't know what they have in their mind, but it's usually not their business. It's especially not their business if it's in a few different industries where people don't typically think of having a salesperson, and you have a couple of examples of that. What's one situation where people don't typically think of having a sales person, but a salesperson not only is worth their weight in gold, but really can allow the business owner to make more money?
Rich Beuchert: Well, there's- one of the niches that we specialize in is dental, as you know. And when a patient goes into an office that... In a time [00:01:00] when they need a lot of work, so let's assume it's something like they, you know, they have a broken tooth that's going to need an implant. They're- and I'll use myself as an example because it works well. You know, I'm in my late fifties, my kids are all grown up. I have spent lots of money making their teeth nice and straight and everything else when they were growing up and neglected my own. So, broken tooth over the years, I've never had them straightened or aligned. And now, you know, I go in and I say 'look, I want to- it's my time and I've worked and I don't have kids to pay for and I want to do my own.' So the dentist comes in, he looks, he does his exam, and now it gets to the point where it gets awkward. Because the dentist, he knows the mechanics and the technical side of doing what I want to do. But now he has to have this conversation about money, which [00:02:00] most dentists are really not very good at. So...
Ryan Chapman: It's not why they went to school.
Rich Beuchert: No! It's not why they went to school and- but right now they're forced to do it and they don't do a good job of it. But imagine the conversation this way. 'Okay, so Rich, here's what you need. We're going to do this first, this second. We're going to put this implant in here and we're going to do this. Now as soon as we're done, I'm going to introduce you to Melody and Melody is going to go through everything with you and give you your options. And, you know, would that work?' 'Yep. Actually, that sounds great.'
Okay, so now first off, the dentist is now able to go onto the next patient because as long as he's sitting awkwardly in the room trying to discuss financing and everything else with me, he's not making any money. And he's doing something that is way outside of his skillset. Far better for him to introduce me to, you know, to Melody. She's going to take me in another room. And now we're going to have a conversation that says, 'here's what the doctor prescribed. You need to have this done, this done, this done. Your insurance [00:03:00] will cover these certain items and we'll make sure that that gets done ahead of time so that you don't have to worry about them not paying it. And you know, for everything you're looking at, you're looking at an additional $10,000'- just to pick a number out of the air.
Ryan Chapman: When you get this person from on sales perspective focused on that, like, not only does it free up the doctor, but she can do a much better job at it.
Rich Beuchert: Absolutely. And not only-
Ryan Chapman: And she can do other things, right? What else can she do?
Rich Beuchert: Yeah. And typically this is going to be the front desk person or one of the people at the front desk, because sure, they have other things that they need to do- welcome people when they come into the office, do the billings, make sure the paperwork's done, that kind of thing. Collect deductibles. But having somebody on staff trained to do this for the dentist really frees him up. And part of that whole process is not only presenting the different options, but it is also, [00:04:00] you know, making sure that, you know- if somebody came to me and said, 'look, it's going to cost you $10,000 to fix your teeth.' I'm probably gonna want a couple of days to kind of... it's not a, you know, a spur of the moment, you know- if it's 500 bucks, yeah, let's schedule it. If it's 10,000, I'm gonna want to probably talk to my wife about it and make sure that she doesn't have plans for that.
And so you can now also assign that person to do some followup. And that's critical because very few people are going to make a major decision like that in one shot. It's going to take a few contacts. The dentist is never going to do it. They just- they don't have the time. And even if they did, again, it's so far out of their wheelhouse. If he's sitting in his office, he still won't make the phone call. So we want to train someone in the staff how to work through this process for them.
Ryan Chapman: So, and that- what's [00:05:00] interesting about this is this not only creates a scenario where sales are going to be going on independent of the dentist, which is a really big deal, but it also creates a situation where now you need a system or a process. Because this can quickly get out of hand.
Rich Beuchert: Yeah. And that's part of it. So, you know, we use Infusionsoft to, you know, build that system out for them so they know what has to happen when it needs to happen. And we also do the training for the staff, because again, they don't have anyone in-house that really knows how to do this. And the part that makes it difficult for most people is they think of quote, unquote 'selling' as something that you do to someone and not for someone.
And the best example I have of that is my dad. And he's passed away now, but before he passed he had gone to a dental office and [00:06:00] he had gotten a pretty large quote to get everything fixed up. And it was $22,000. And he had put it off and put it off because there was no followup. He had the, you know, the amount and then he starts second guessing himself. You know, 'I'm 75 years old. Should I really be doing this? And it's a lot of money and do I really need to do this?' And we had the talk and I said, 'well, so why were you even considering this in the first place?' And he said, 'do you realize that it's been almost 20 years since I've had steak?' And I hadn't thought about it. And you know, here's my dad who had worked his whole life really hard. He provided for myself, my sister, my mom and, you know, the... Right now, a major part of what he can't do is enjoy a steak. And it sounds really simple. And I said, 'look, get it done. [00:07:00] You know, you've worked too hard not to do this.' And unfortunately, he got really severe pneumonia and he passed away before it got done. And it's one of the things that really stuck with me saying... You know, and I'm thinking to myself 'I'm not going to make that mistake.'
But what happens is you get someone in, you know, in a dental office and they're saying, 'well, I don't want to call them because, you know, like that's $22,000 and like, he's 75 years old.' This is exactly the wrong type of thinking.
Ryan Chapman: And this is where, you know... There's another phrase from Dan, which is, you're not your customer. And too frequently, if people don't have the proper training for how to do sales and how to, you know, run a sales process, they start thinking about what they think the sales process is. Which is, you know, to them it's about taking money from somebody else, doing something to somebody. They don't realize that they are not the customer. And so they need to not assume that they [00:08:00] understand what the customer's after. And you really gotta get yourself into that position of the person and recognize if you have a good service that you bring to the market you have an obligation to do the very best you can to not only sell, not only to market, but to follow up and be very good about communication so that you can allow people to receive what they want. Instead of worrying about what you're doing or what you think that, you know, you're getting.
And that story to me really hits the head of this issue, which is that stop worrying about what you think it is, how much you think it costs, all this. That doesn't matter. If you understand really what it is that you bring to the market, you should recognize that you have just this moral obligation to do the very best you can to promote it and sell it.
Rich Beuchert: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it was one of the regrets that, you know, that when he passed I had. Because had I known this sooner, it would have been like, 'why are you even thinking about this? Just-' [00:09:00] Had they called and said,' you know, have you given it any thought?' And it's not...
Ryan Chapman: Let's talk about who lost in this scenario. There's- I can think of that you lost as a son because, you know, you feel a little bit of regret not pushing him sooner. He lost out because he didn't get to have that steak that he wanted before he passed away. And people may look at that however they want to, but that's a big deal, you know, for him. It was a big deal. He had worked hard. He had done things to earn that and then didn't get to take advantage of it because of some delays on whatever people's part. People in that office, they didn't make 22,000.
Rich Beuchert: No.
Ryan Chapman: You know, that dentist didn't get the money that he should've for his expertise. He- I'm sure he's got debts out the wazoo because most dentists I know do. And so, you know, that could have helped him pay off some debts. There's the staff in the office, that would go towards their wages. Everybody in that scenario lost out because somebody didn't follow through. And didn't follow a [00:10:00] sales process and probably weren't organized at all. You know what I mean? This goes back to why it's so critical, not only to introduce this idea of having a salesperson in a place where you may think that a salesperson doesn't belong, which you know, most dentists, probably most attorneys. You know, even many medical folks are thinking that the doctor's got to do all this stuff. And in reality, that ought to be passed off to the sales salesperson. Talk a little bit about the sales process. How do you start designing these sales pipelines and why is it so critical to get them trained on how to use the sales pipeline? I mean, we've got this thing of you're not doing it to people, you're doing it for people, which is a really great mental place to get yourself if you're doing sales. But how do you go about designing these sales processes for these situations where people may not be thinking about sales at all?
Rich Beuchert: Yeah. So, you're right- the mental shift has to occur first and that's why we like [00:11:00] to work with the staff because they're the ones that are going to be doing this.
The first step is always decide what your end goal is. So, you know, in the case of my dad, the end goal would be to have him accept the treatment option and make the decision to book the first appointment and go forward. So that's the end goal. The next step is to find, you know, what's the first spot? Which is, you know, when he's in the chair getting his, you know, his annual cleaning done or whatever it is, one of the things that should happen is during the cleaning, either the hygienist or the dentist should be asking, you know, 'is there anything about your teeth that you would like to change if there were, you know, if there was nothing holding you back?' You know, at that point they probably would have found out sooner and not waited until, you know, almost 20 years [00:12:00] that-
Ryan Chapman: Sure.
Rich Beuchert: He really wanted to have a steak. And... Because if he had done that 10 years ago, he probably wouldn't have hesitated. And I... I know he wouldn't have hesitated. So that first part wasn't there. Then the next part is, all right, well let's- in a perfect world, if you had all this done, 'let's get you a quote, so at least you know what you would be looking at. Would that be okay? There's no cost, no obligation. We'll just go through it.' And I know he would've agreed to it. He'd have said like, 'if I'm not going to get pressured or anything else, then fine.' So as you're going through that, you have to make sure that you know the questions you're asking. 'So, you know, why would you want to have this done?' 'Well, you know, it's been 10 years since I've had a steak. I really-' You know, that would... That would've come out as being a major driver because if someone mentions it?
The second part of that, and I didn't mention this earlier, is when we were having, you know, family barbecues and stuff like that, he didn't come. [00:13:00] And it never-
Ryan Chapman: You guys had no idea, huh?
Rich Beuchert: It never dawned on me until afterwards that that was probably why. And, you know, had they asked that and he said, 'you know, my kids have barbecues all the time and I don't go because I'm embarrassed cause I can't eat.' That would've made a huge difference right there. Because now they know the why.
Ryan Chapman: Yeah.
Rich Beuchert: And once you get to that- you know... So assuming they get at that part, and now they're saying, 'here's what you need to do. And it's $22,000.' And my dad was very frugal. And I know that the idea of, you know, spending as much on his mouth as what he would spend on a small car would just drive him crazy. But in part of the training, one of the things that we teach the staff to ask when they do the followup call- because most people are hesitant. You know, it's like, 'yeah, I'm still thinking about it.' And we train them to do this- and my dad's name was Bill. 'So Bill, do you mind if I ask you a question?' [00:14:00] And he’ll say, 'Sure.' 'Just to help me clarify what it is that we're dealing with. Is it something that I've done or is there something about the procedure that doesn't make sense to you? Or is it just the money?' The key there is to say, 'just the money.' You use that word 'just.' And 9 out of 10 will tell you 'it's just the money.'
And at that point, you now know what you need to do to fix the conversation, to get them to go forward. 'So if I took the 22,000 and I broke it down to a thousand a month for 24 months so that you're not having to lay out that big piece of cash right now. Would that help?' And you can start to work with them. But that question is... It's very no pressure, and it's very easy.
Ryan Chapman: The phrase of big doors open on small hinges. These little questions, these little design elements that you incorporate into your sales process are such a big deal, and that's why it's so [00:15:00] important for people to be working with somebody who's thinking about all these things. Because for many, many offices I'm sure that's not even a thing that comes up on their radar. They're not even thinking about 'oh well, one: should the doctor just be focusing on what actually generates revenue that only the doctor can do, or should he be doing sales?' You know, that's the first question that they aren't asking.
And then once they've asked that question and now it's 'okay, we've got to dedicated person.' Cause I've been to different dental offices where they actually are implementing at least that portion, right? They don't have the dentist doing the presentation of the plan and money part, but that's done by somebody else. But they're not trained at all on how to do a sales process. So it's even worse than the doctor doing it because one: they don't have the positioning of the doctor and then they don't leverage the positioning of the doctor and they just, you know, just mechanically go through this process of telling, 'okay, here's what it is. Pay.' And not understanding that they have an obligation to actually [00:16:00] understand where you are, give you opportunities to evaluate and make a good buying decision. Instead, they kind of go at it almost like a machine.
And so it's really- as much as it is important to design that process of having, 'okay, what's the end goal? What are the stages that need to occur in order for us to get to that end goal?' Really understanding what are those questions that we have? What are those dialogues that need to occur? What are the stages of the sales conversation that need to happen in order for us to most effectively help a person arrive at a place where they can responsibly make that buying decision? That's just critical. I think a lot of people overlook the need for that level of detail in their sales process. They like to think of it more as the mechanical part, which again- this kind of came up in our last discussion, didn't it? There's the mechanics, and then there is the psychology of the situation and understanding the psychology is, I would say, more important. Although you have to have both [00:17:00] mechanics and the psychology, right? But understanding the psychology of the sales process. Without that, then you're just going through the mechanics and it's just- it falls flat. It really falls flat.
So how did you get about understanding all of this about sales? I think that's a fascinating question for us to get to because a lot of people, they don't pick up on this nuance. They just... Maybe they get into the mechanics if they're lucky, but they don't understand the psychology around asking these types of questions.
Rich Beuchert: Yeah. So, that goes back a long way. When I was 12 years old my parents owned a marine dealership. And if you... So we did things like, you know, fishing boats and Sea-Doo and you know, that kind of stuff. And business was in Winnipeg which has about four months of summer and eight months of ice. So [00:18:00] if you think being in a business where it's a hundred percent discretionary because nobody needs a fishing boat or Sea-Doo. They want one. And then trying to sell that product in a geographic area where, you know, summer is shorter than winter, you know, you got your... You got your-
Ryan Chapman: Work cut out for you.
Rich Beuchert: It's an uphill climb. So we had to become really good at understanding the motivations that would get people to buy. And, you know, it wasn't about, you know- a great example is a Sea-Doo. Because you get to ride around on it on a lake and it doesn't really do anything else. And you have to really get into their head and talk about, you know, the emotions and the feelings and getting away and like, your cell phone won't ring when you're on the Sea-Doo and even if it does you can't answer it anyway 'cause you're getting sprayed with water. And all these things that go back to...
[00:19:00] You know, the same thing that I was talking about my dad about not going barbecues. And it's that psychological component that if you understand it and you are able to discern what it is, like, what that motivation is, then you can help them to get to the goal that they want. And you know, whether that be, you know, they want to have a new car because they just got a promotion at work and they kind of want to show off to family. Or, you know, in the case of the fishing boat, his 15 year old son is spending all of his weekends on his X-Box and dad wants to have some quality time with him and a good way to do it is get out into the wilderness and go fishing. It's those hidden motivations and once you find them... The sales process, first off, it becomes very easy. And you actually help a [00:20:00] lot of people that a lot of times don't understand what that real deep emotion is. They know it's there, but they find it hard to enunciate it and you actually serve people by helping them to get and do the things in life that they want to do.
Ryan Chapman: Do you think that that is why... And a lot of people- a lot of business owners don't realize this, and I had to be told this to really get it. But most people, if they don't decide to buy from you now do nothing. It's a very small minority that will actually go to a competitor. Most people do nothing if they don't buy from you now. Is that because they do have such a hard time often articulating and identifying their own personal motivations and they need that help to work through that with a salesperson?
Rich Beuchert: Yeah. You know, I think that's true because we would have... So, again, when I was a kid and working in the marina, we would have people that would come in and they would look at a boat [00:21:00] in, you know, in the middle of summer. And... You know, at the time we didn't have- you know, we're talking now the 70's and 80's so this is an idea of how old I am. But none of this stuff existed. Like if you wanted to do follow-up, you wrote it down on a piece of paper and you put it in a little card box and you went through your cards everyday and you made notes to phone. Cards would get lost and, you know, you'd forget things. You miss a card and then, you know, it's two months later and you're going, 'I'm not going to phone them now. I feel like an idiot. You know, I should've called them six weeks ago.' So you don't call, and then they show up again the following spring. They hadn't done anything yet. They just didn't have... You know, and they hadn't gone to another dealer. They knew what, you know, what we presented was all they wanted. They just did nothing.
Ryan Chapman: Yeah.
Rich Beuchert: And then they went through winter and they're going... You know, it comes to spring and they're like, 'I want to do this.' And that was a big [00:22:00] learning thing for me, was understanding that, you know, just because they didn't come back didn't mean they went somewhere else. A lot of times it meant they did nothing. It's because no one was pushing that button that needed to be pushed to get them to-
Ryan Chapman: I feel like that's why you really have to talk about and understand the buying decision that your customers make. And really get into why do they make the decision that they make to buy from me? And exploring that, I think is so valuable. And yet... I mean, Rich, if you're exploring that idea, are you making any money in that moment?
Rich Beuchert: In that exact moment? No.
Ryan Chapman: I think that's the challenge. You know, people only think about the moments that they make money immediately and don't recognize that any time or money invested in discovering and understanding better why it is that your customers become [00:23:00] customers in the first place is extremely valuable. That's why like hiring somebody like you that's spent so much time thinking about it, implementing it, reiterating on it, is so valuable compared to just saying, 'okay, I'll try this on my own alone.' Although people can do that. That's why I think it's so valuable. If you can hit somebody that's already been through this thinking, not just for their business, but for 30 different businesses. And have seen all the different varieties on this and they go, 'oh, okay. I see the trend here. I see what actually happens over and over again. Now I understand why all these businesses aren't different. They're all the same. I've spent enough time to really understand what is it that drives the human behavior.'
Rich Beuchert: It's a science, but it's also an art.
Ryan Chapman: Yeah.
Rich Beuchert: The best way I've ever heard it explained is- I'm not sure if you're familiar with Chris Carlson. He works a lot with financial planners. But the way he described it was if you think of a line with zero at one end of the [00:24:00] line and 100 at the other end of the line, when someone is unaware of your product or service, they're at zero. And the moment they make the decision to go forward, they're at a hundred. But there's all those points in between zero and a hundred so, you know, if I'm doing a presentation on, you know, buying a Sea-Doo in Winnipeg in February, when it's 40 degrees below zero, I may only get them to 50. Well, the opportunity is there to move them, you know, from 50 to 80 as spring gets closer. And then when the May long weekend comes and the lakes finally are no longer solid and they're back to liquid, I can go from 80 to 100 and make that sale.
But you have to understand where they are along that continuum and not do what every business tries to do, which is go from zero straight to a hundred. And that's why you see, you know, businesses that say, you know, I have a Facebook guy and his [00:25:00] leads are no good because he got me a thousand leads and I only sold one. You're trying to go straight from zero to a hundred. That doesn't work.
Ryan Chapman: I use the baseball analogy of the home run. The goal for the home run on the first hit. And they'd be way better off if they just got base hits.
Rich Beuchert: Right.
Ryan Chapman: Is there a Canadian equivalent to that?
Rich Beuchert: Uh, well...
Ryan Chapman: I was just joking!
Rich Beuchert: Well, hockey, probably. But, you know, it's like you want to get up to bat and you want a grand slam. Well, you don't have anybody on base yet. You know, it's like it ain't going to happen, right? It's the same problem. And that's the biggest problem with most marketing we see when someone comes to us and says, 'my marketing doesn't work.' 'Well, who are you marketing to' and 'Well, we want people that are looking for a new widget.' And I said, 'okay, but how many [00:26:00] people are looking to buy your widget right now? Because all your marketing is-' It's a big complaint I have about car dealers. They only market to people that are looking at buying a car in the next 72 hours. And that's it. Like if... You know, if somebody has got something that, you know, it's not starting-
Ryan Chapman: It's a small percentage of the marketplace is ever in that position where a home run could be even possible, right?
Rich Beuchert: Right!
Ryan Chapman: And so it's the most expensive thing to possibly do.
Rich Beuchert: Right. When all your competitors are doing the same thing you are all fighting for a very, very small piece of the pie.
Ryan Chapman: Yeah. Well, and I think that, going back to your question that you introduced at the very beginning, where when someone's coming in you're asking them, 'is there anything about your teeth you're unhappy with or that you would like to change if there was nothing holding you back?' That's a really great question. I think many [00:27:00] dental offices don't even think to ask that question either.
Rich Beuchert: No, they don't.
Ryan Chapman: The person comes in, they get their cheap cleaning. The doctor's almost annoyed because that's all they got was a cleaning, and then, you know, they're waiting for the patient to come in and say, 'yes, I want all of my teeth replaced.' With bated breath. They're waiting for the home run to show up at their doorstep, not realizing that they've been letting people that want more done come in and go out without ever getting into them. That's why I think this whole discussion was so, so powerful, Rich, and I appreciate you bringing it up because it really helps businesses to think- even if you're not a dental business.
I hope that as you were listening, you were thinking about, 'well, how am I like the dental business?' Cause you get way more out of it if you do that, then if you just think, 'well, I'm not a dentist, nothing to hear here.' If you recognize the fact that in your business there are probably natural occurrences that go on that could be opening up doors for [00:28:00] other sales opportunities that you're totally ignoring and then open those doors and then not only that, but have the sales process, take the time to invest in getting some sales training, some sales direction. Because the pipeline is the easy part, isn't it?
Rich Beuchert: Yeah, absolutely.
Ryan Chapman: But it's getting the training and the staff in the right place that's a really valuable part. And that's exactly what you do, isn't it, Rich?
Rich Beuchert: Right. That's a big, big part of it is getting all those- all the nuances figured out along the way.
Ryan Chapman: So if you thought this discussion was interesting and you'd like to talk Rich more about the sales process in your own business, I'd recommend you text Rich at (587) 807-6750. We'll make sure that that's in our show notes, too, below this podcast episode. But thanks, Rich, so much! I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day. I know you've got a busy schedule with all the people that you're working with. But I appreciate you taking the time to just discuss these topics because I feel like [00:29:00] if people understand that you don't- I think if nothing else, if they took away just that concept of you're not selling- you're not doing things to people, but you're doing it for them. That can change the whole feeling about everything that you communicate and do in your sales process.
Rich Beuchert: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks, Ryan. I really appreciate having some time with you.
Ryan Chapman: It's been my pleasure.